Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I currently carry a Kel-Tec SUB-2000 (9mm Glock 17) with a 17rd mag in the grip and a 33rd mag velcroed to the stock. This gives me 50 rounds available. The gun is carried folded on the right side of my seat nestled over the handbrake.

However, I've never been real comfortable with my ability to quickly unfold the gun and charge the bolt (it cannot be folded with a round in the chamber). Also, being left handed this gun tends to spit powder in my face and it is quite uncomfortable to sholder.

Well, I'm thinking about switching to a Calico Liberty pistol. I read on the Uzi forum that it is possible to sholder one with the 100 round 9mm magazine. Add a front grip for stability and a scope and you have some seriously portable firepower:

http://www.dwsuk.co.uk/New_site/Other/umaxpics/calh.gif

Yes, I know it is ugly -- who cares. Once you get the hang of loading the 100-round magazine I understand it is very reliable (just don't drop it on the magazine). I did see one other setup which mounted a front sight on the flash hider, but it might be too hard to get low enough to line up the sights if the magazine is being sholdered. Also, I was thinking that some sort of slip cover might make it more comfortable/secure against the sholder.

I like the fact that this design is downward ejecting (much like the FN PS-90). They also have a brass catcher for it (this might be VERY handy depending on the circumstances).

The carbine version weighs only 7.5 pounds when loaded with 100 rounds. I imagine you could take a couple pounds off that weight for the pistol.

I remember that FerFal used to swear that the two most important things in a car gun fight were the ability to shoot one-handed and capacity. It might be a little unwieldy, but doable, and nobody has more than 100 rounds!

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

winchester model 1894 ranger model.
.30-30 16 inch barrel...... less than 200 bucks
cheep wood, blued steel, regular old rifle.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Front grip is a no-no without the proper tax stamp. makes it an AOW.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Got a link? I think it was prohibited under the AWB...

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

1934 NFA is where it is prohibited under
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_...k/chapter2.pdf

Check out page 9.

BTW, this 'NFA handbook' is a very nice resource for any interested in NFA firearms.
You can thank the NFATCA (NFA Trade and Collectors Association) for the massive effort necessary in cooperating with the BATF NFA branch to get this accomplished.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Thanks! I've seen tons of these Glock grips on Gunbroker without a word of NFA violations:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Yeah, I was about to say...I like Wallew's idea for a heavy duty car weapon:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

It isn't one of my calibers. Also, a 40-round banana mag sticks out quite a bit more.

I have limited myself to .30-06, 9mm, and .22LR. However. I keep a stash of 7.62 Tok. for my CZ-52. I really want to stick with 9mm because I can cast bullets for it. Casting bullets for rifle calibers is very tricky due to the velocity. I've thought about MP-5s or Uzis. However, this Calico drum mag makes it so much easier to hide under a car seat or sling under a jacket.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Brother in law had a Calico, never would run, he finally ditched it.

After that junker, I definitely wouldn't trust my life to one.

Plus, I'm a fan of a rifle caliber for a vehicle. If I'm in a vehicle, they prolly are too. I've punched motor blocks with my truck gun. However, I realize that not everyone can get away with carrying like I do (rural, not out of the truck long usually.)

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

My car /truck gun is in the holster on my belt. S&W model 38 airwieght with stag grips

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I've been thinking about a calico for a few years too. (I simply like odd/unique firearms)
Think i might look into getting one coming up sometime. If'n you do get one, give us a testimonial.
I'd definitely want to get a holo sight attached to the pistol itself like in your picture, rather than rely on the regular sight that is part of the magazine that they come with.....
I'm also curious about how tightly the magazine couples after good use...

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Ohhh - I gotcha. Well if you're limited by those factors I guess it does seem to make sense for you. - just hope that crazy looking thing works out for ya:D Fill us in if you do decide to pick one up. :s9:


:emotions16:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Here's a nice little site i just found with some good info on the Calico LWS:

http://207.234.249.73/gunfax/calico/calico.htm

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

i currently own all the Calico models and calibers and all of the accessories....if anyone has any specific questions i will be happy to answer.

in my opinion they are a fantastic weapon.

i started buying them because of the ban many years ago and their rareness and i have shot 10s of thousands of rounds thru many models

i own many many standard and exotic weapons and the calico is by far the superior weapon and is only limited by its caliber range.

extremely accurate
no kick
50 or 100 rd mags
simple 1/2 push pin dis-assembly and cleaning
modular so working on them is a breeze
etc
the K grip is easy to put on and take-off and works on both the pistol and the carbine
pistol is easy to shoot 1 handed with the 100rd mag
100% amnidexterous

the company was closed to the public for years because of the hi cap magazine ban but has recently reopened to the public

i personally prefer the boxy looks of a MAC but nothing competes with the ability to have a 100rd pistol that doesnt have any muzzle rise

any FTFs i have ever had were related to ammo/cleaning/wear in excess of 10k rounds

http://www.calicolightweaponsystems.com/

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

This may be a good car gun....

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

If you want a 9mm bullet hose that uses steel 30-round mags, how about a Cobray M11/9 with or without dummy suppressor:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

TTAZMAN,

Does the mag develop any slop in its coupling to the gun after long use?

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

OH that's MUCH more attractive:sarcasm:



:D-

Im jus ribbin' you know what they say-- "if it goes bang..."


EDIT:

ok.. that Promo vid on the Calico site IS spretty impressive..... They're still ugly though:D

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

"Beauty is as beauty does..."

momma

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

stick a Lage Max11 upper on it, and viola!
Tacticool and more controllable ROF.
http://www.precisionweapons.com/cart...tock_left2.jpg

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Ohhh yahaazzzz.....

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Where the fvck do you guys think you are, IraQ?
How many rounds have you popped off from your car?
I would say out of everyone who has posted in this thread so far....the number ZERO comes to mind....:confused_ma:

I'm all about the wheelgun too...

SP101 in .357.....two speed loaders ready as backup and another box of fifty if I have to take off on foot.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

QUOTE: Where the fvck do you guys think you are, IraQ?
How many rounds have you popped off from your car?

Do highway signs count? :smokin:

Come on Cal, these threads always devolve into the fantasy realm.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

rural land in NTexas
reactive targets on the road up to the goat barn. shooting out the truck window is fun. So frequently, as we have to feed chickens and goats daily.
Don't be a party pooper just 'cause you don't play with your toys :wink: :D

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

It always comes back to those damn zombies, doesn't it??? :D

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Sweet Jesus....you want that as your CARRY gun?:applause_

Well done, sir. I thought I was prepared with a 5-shot .38 special around my waist.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I got a Keltec PLR-16 as my car gun.

Because it's technically a pistol, I can carry it with my Indiana License to carry a Handgun legally. Because it uses the gas piston it's smaller than a traditional AR pistol. 10 round flush or 20 or 30 round magazines, maybe a beta drum... whats not to love?
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepa...r16onbench.jpg
Now mine has a reflex sight instead of the traditional red dot tube and no mounted light (although I do have one I could put on). Also mine only has a single point rear sling. I'm not sure if the two point sling might fall under the bogus rule of a "front strap equaling a front grip" as the batfe has determined is the case with non-NFA MAC pistols.

If one were to pay the tax stamp (AOW) and add a front grip to it, it'd be an even better weapon.... click here and scroll down if you want to see what one guy did: http://ggthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/...-finished.html

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

"Car gun"... carry gun is a CZ P-01 in 9mm.

TTAZZMAN... thanks for the testimonial! Most people who have opinions on them have never owned one because they can't get past the looks. However, most owners I've read have said that they are fine weapons (however a little weak on magazine materials - like I said, don't drop it on the magazine).

Have you tried to shoulder the pistol with the 100-rd magazine?

I do like the brass catcher. In a car situation (with passengers perhaps) it is nice that it isn't flinging brass around the cabin.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1216317518

I agree that an AK pistol w/a couple of 30rd mags would be the perfect car gun if you can legally carry it. If you are up against some chumps with handguns, they are dead meat. Like someone said above, if it is legally a pistol, you can concealed carry it too :bear_w00t:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I think under federal law that is not a pistol, it is a short barreled rifle which opens a whole new can of fish.
Do some DD but be careful, I bought an old UZI that had been in the US since the 70's and never registerd and the cops litterly had kittens when I tried to make it a legal pistol.
It got so bad I finally put a 16 inch barrel and a full stock on it and sold it.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

No, he's safe. it is a pistol. What you did with the UZI, you're lucky to not been charged. They freak out over unregistered NFA. What you did with the stock and barrel is not kosher with the BATF, either, BTW.....I wouldn't talk about it. (as in, i'd delete your post, and i'll delete this one)
But theres plenty of 5.56 and 7.62x39 pistols.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

It was a factory semi-auto only Uzzer.
What I did with the stock and barrel was make it legal.16.1 inch barrel and 30.1 inch total length with a non retractable stock.
The parts are redily available to make it stubby again if anybody wanted to take the risk.It was not worth it to me.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

This is a little carry gun that's going in the saddlebags on my Triumph. It's still a project in the works. I bought the receiver at the gun store and registered it as a pistol. Soon I'm going to silver plate everything and gold plate a magazine for it. The project also includes Abalone slabs in the grips. It will fit nicely along the inside of my saddlebag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...37879/AK-1.jpg

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Ah IC....
my bad. i thought you were saying it was an unregistered auto....misunderstood.
What were the cops freaking out about then?

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Very nice Project MtnMan!
give us an update pic when you're done.
Makes me want to bling a gun, too!

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

It was a folding stock UZI with a 9 in barrel, sticks about an inch past the barrel nut.I wanted to register it as a handgun as it had never been registerd before but had been here in the US a long time.
No flippin way they said, thats not a pistol its a short barreled rifle!!!
I guess a submachinegun even semi auto falls between the cracks of the logic in Michigan.
Luckily I live in a small town and as soon as they got over spilling coffee and spitting doughnut crumbs he said bring it back in 10 days and it better be legal and gave me a 26 page printout on gun laws from the michigan state police.
I brought it back with a 16 in barrel and solid stock overall 30.1 inches long and had to fill out a yellow sheet like I bought it for the first time from a dealer.
That was enough for me, lesson learned.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

That's gonna be crazy... here are a few shiny AKs.. not my style, but interesting nonetheless.

http://img38.picoodle.com/img/img38/...7m_0dab811.jpg

http://www.strangemilitary.com/image...ent/101001.jpg

http://n2.cdn.spikedhumor.com/1/2200..._usamas_ak.jpg

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

FYI per federal laws if it's a rifle it can never become a pistol. If it's a pistol it can never be a rifle.

i.e.
It can go from pistol to AOW- ONLY
It can go from rifle to SBR (possible to do AOW, but cheaper/easier to do SBR) -ONLY

And yes, the Keltec PLR is manufactured as a PISTOL. PLR also stands for Pistol-Long-Range.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I like that you can use a magazine as one on some cz-75s. Sounds like a good way of getting around the AOW thing.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

You sure about that? i thought you could SBR a pistol....

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Truck guns

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/

I like the Hi-Points for cheap reliable truck guns with a warranty that won't quit. I have the C9 and a 995 carbine (both 9mm) that I toss in the back seat. It's so dusty anddirty where I am most of the time that this works out well.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/images/guns/C9.gif

Besides, how can you go wrong with a gun from "The Planet of the Apes"?

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/images/guns/995b.gif

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/images/guns/995cmo.gif

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I have not had any trouble with any issue like that

I have bought very used mags and put new shells or spring kits in them that had been abused or over wound up.

I have never had a 9mm mag that i have owned develop a problem

the 22cal versions are more sensitive on the mag spring, also some of the 22cal mags with clear shells were produced the wrong size and are slightly to large

the mags for all calibers are plastic....i have never droped or broken one so i cant speak to impact resistance

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I still don't understand why people are wasting money on a 9mm. There are many superior calibers available. Go with at least a 40. You have to ask yourself if you trust your life to a 9mm. For me the answer is always NO!

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

The myth rises again...

Mythbusters did ballistics testing a while back and found that the 9mm had superior penetration in certain circumstances.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Which, in 9mm would limit me to the Tec-9, Uzi, and MP-5? (Or some AR-15 9mm converstion)

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Not sure what mil spec means in this circumstance, but I own a Ruger PC9 Police Carbine in 9mm...very robust, accurate, and affordable. No longer made but still see them at gun shows. High cap 30 round aftermarket mags are available--I own a few 20 rounders. Also available in .40 caliber. Able to solidly mount a scope or red dot sight.

My PC9 will print cloverleafs at 50 yards...

Performance is not too shabby out of a 16 inch barrel....357 Sig velocities...check out Speer GD 115 +p+ @1635fps

Ruger PC9 Ballistics: from www.grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm
Rem Golden Saber 124gr +p jhp 1397 1406 1414 1389 1409 1397 1416 1416 1414 1384 avg 1404.2 s.dev 11.736
Speer Gold Dot 115gr jhp +p+ 1544 1643 1629 1653 1650 1641 1658 1652 1657 1620 avg 1634.7 s.dev 34.144
Winchester Ranger 127gr jhp +p+ 1368 1400 1413 1382 1392 1411 1389 1390 1370 1388 avg 1390.3 s.dev 15.004
Rem 115gr jhp +p+ 1577 1595 1568 1589 avg 1582.25
Fiocchi 115gr fmj 1307 1395 1344 1389 1381 1380 1340 1384 1373 1405 avg 1369.8 s.dev 30.151
Fed Premium Hydrashok 124gr jhp 1229 1307 1291 1319 1290 1308 1309 1287 1291 1299 avg 1293 s.dev 24.806
To calculate energy: E = W(eight in grains) * V(elocity in fps) * (V(elocity in fps)/450450).
JA

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Are you saying you keep only ONE gun in your car?
And you have TWO hands?

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I am fully aware of "mil-spec" requirements...not sure it is necessary in this scenario. Is a Glock or AK pistol "mil-spec"?

If he is limiting himself to 9mm, then a solid 16 inch carbine--such as the Ruger--would give him optimum performance out of that cartridge...that is all I am saying.

It would not be my choice for a car gun. (see AK pistol suggestion)

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

7.62x39 doesn't seem like a good "scavanging" load. If I was going to go with a rifle caliber I would probably lean toward the 5.56 due to its "availability" and lesser recoil. Maybe an ambi-bullpup like the FS-2000, but I've heard that the trigger sucks (that and it feels "fat").

http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images.../FNM0138mb.png

However, the ability to shoot one handed could be valuable in a car situation (the other hand on the wheel). The Glock 17 suggesting sounds immensely practical... yet not as sexy.:D

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Now that is sexy looking. :wink:

There are AK pistols in .223 still available for ~$450...not pretty, but functional and quite handy. J&G Sales and Centerfire Systems has them. Called the "Champion".

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I think Wallew claimed he had 40 round drum magazines for his AK snubbies?

I'm suprised he hasn't chimed in here.

Why not a stoeger coach gun?

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Mr. Wallew is currently unavailable for comment.

I think the original poster wanted something capable of firing more than two shots before reloading...

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I agree with you if we are talking about semi-automatic pistols, thier performance is sad at best.A 9mm pistol will not penetrate a camaro windshield.
But put that same round in an UZI or MP5 and it will defeat a ballistic vest up to class 3 without the ceramic inserts.
I would rather have a few 9mm's than one 40, a state cop told me it is a great gun to put holes in paper but worthless as a duty gun.
A real 40 is the Colt 10mm auto the FBI developed after they got thier asses kicked in that bank robbery in Miami.Look it up.
1310 fps in a standard 1911 frame with 155 grain bullets and flat as a pancake to 70 yards.:applause_
there is no gun like it.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

QUOTE: However, the ability to shoot one handed could be valuable in a car situation (the other hand on the wheel). The Glock 17 suggesting sounds immensely practical... yet not as sexy. UNQUOTE

I was also thinking of a Glock 17L with a handful of 33-round mags...

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Wrong, the same gun will happily spit out 180 grain hollow points at around 1170 fps, I have shot a couple deer with that round.
If you are a glock fan its the model 20 that shoots a full power 10 mm round,we shoot 10mm in Colt Delta Elite.
Please go shoot one if you can find one and get back to me on how you like it.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Is that a longslide Glock?

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Just saying, don't dog things you are not familiar with.The 10mm was developed for a reason and that was to shoot through cars!!
Do some DD on the 10mm round, its a facinating but short history.
They were pulled from police use because they "overpenetrate"
Thats the whole reason they were developed!
So the powers that be took 3/4 of the powder out of them and called them the .40 S&W, a round that is worse than a 9mm.
I'm Proud to have the Colts we do, those suckers don't just bark they BANG!

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

The chances of finding a Glock 20 or Colt Delta Elite 10mm to shoot is not likely.They are rare.
By the way, I dident tell you to buy one, just shoot one if you ever get the chance.I think you would be pleasently suprised.:smokin:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Not a myth. The 9mm is crap unless that's all that you have. Better than a knife, that's for sure.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

yep. Agreed!

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Whatever point you were trying to make here, you lost me.I'm just glad you are on our side.:applause_

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

please try to stay focused here.......one subject is enough.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

I am also left-handed and shooting this thing out the driver's window left-handed while actually driving seems a little contorted?

:dontknow:

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

Negative, I know several folks who have done the paperwork to convert an Ar-15 pistol into an SBR.

Re: Thinking about getting a different car gun
 

That is true of pretty much any gun being lefty and driving. However, I have a feeling most urban threats will come from curbside. Still not entirely easy to shoot reaching across your body.

I like the longer G-17! Never seen one in a shop. I wonder what the muzzle velocity difference is with the extra inches.

Now... for knockdown power I could go for a Tromix Saiga-12 pistol with 20-rd drum mag. :)

http://www.tromix.com/images/8inchLage3w.jpg